Brenda Murrow, Ph.D., is a Pacifica Core Faculty & research coordinator in Clinical Psychology. She will be presenting “Somatic Transference/Somatic Interaction Patterns Through the Lens Of Equine-Assisted Therapy” during Journey Week. Journey Week is an immersive week of learning and connecting at Pacifica Graduate Institute, September 27th – 29th, 2024. For more information and to register, visit us here. I’m delighted to discuss Brenda’s unique work with horses and her upcoming talk at Journey Week.
Angela Borda: Much of your work focuses on animal-assisted therapy, and in particular, equine therapy. I wonder if you could tell us about your background with horses. Were you raised with them or were they an intentional addition to your adult life? What is most joyous and rich in your interactions with horses?
Brenda Murrow: As a child, I spent time with my grandfather and he always had horses, one in particular that was there when I was growing up. From my earliest interactions, I’ve been infatuated with horses and with animals in general. We visited my grandparents multiple times a year and I was allowed to ride around town on this horse. Even at that point, I was really interested in how he lived, asking my grandpa how the horse got his teeth brushed, that kind of thing. And my family in general has an affinity for all kinds of animals. I have horses of my own, three now.
During my training to become a psychologist, one of my early practicum sites was in equine-assisted therapy, and when I moved back to Kansas, I started working at a site that does equine-assisted services. I haven’t incorporated horses into my practice yet, but I’ve been working on a research project that better understands why this therapy is so effective.
Angela: These days we have yoga classes with goats and every conceivable variety of emotional support animal. What is it about the horse that makes them perfect for therapy?
Brenda: What is unique about working with horses is that as prey animals, they have to be incredibly sensitive to our intentions. It’s built into them that they need to be able to assess what is safe and what is a threat. So they are always scanning our intentions. Part of what my research is looking at is how that works. The other reason they’re great for therapy is that they’re bigger than us. They immediately encourage our own defenses to come forward. Because if we’re coming at that interaction with an awareness of their power and strength, then we’re immediately aware that while this is hopefully going to be a great interaction, it could also be a dangerous one. This can help our therapy participants understand how they face new situations. For example, in a situation that could be dangerous, how do they think through who is a trustworthy partner, who is not? It encourages us to do what the horses are doing, which is assess if the interaction is safe or not. I work a lot with teenagers from difficult backgrounds, and it is common for there to be a tendency to overemphasize positive attributes in dangerous situations; there’s often a mis-assessment there, and working with equines brings that out immediately, because we must have a realistic appraisal of the encounter.
Angela: I wonder if you have any observations about what horses might experience during these therapeutic interactions? Is it a symbiotic relationship, an equitable exchange?
Brenda: I’m glad you asked that question. I think about the horses’ experience a lot as part of this therapy. I partner with equine professionals whose focus is the wellbeing of the horse, while I focus on the human’s wellbeing. So I’m always in constant discussion with my equine professional partner. Because we do ask the horse to reflect back what they sense in the human, if there’s anxiety or nervousness, the horse will display that in their own behavior as well, because they’re so sensitive to us. Horses are their own beings. Some horses are natural healers. Just as with humans, and with dogs, some beings are naturally inclined to want to help others. In the barns where I have worked, I observed some of them really want to do this job. Horses seem to like having jobs, and once they figure out what they’re being asked to do in these programs, they do it well. And like humans, some horses get along with people better than others. You can tell if a horse is excited about a particular person who shows up at the barn.
Angela: Your talk will begin around the concept of “somatic transference,” and I wondered if you could tell those of us who might not know, what that is and what about horses might provide a very different therapeutic effect with somatic transference than a regular talk session?
Brenda: Somatic transference is a new term. In the history of psychoanalysis and depth psychotherapy, we’re keen to understand the transference when we speak. In an office session with a patient, we are aware that sometimes what they say is related to other figures in their world. Other relationships influence how they speak to their therapist. Later, we realized as therapists that we have a transference back to the patient, a reenactment in either their history or ours. So the skill as a therapist is to be watching that layer of interaction. What I’m suggesting is that it happens in body movements, not just speech. That is true in any communication dialog. To do better therapy overall, we need to get in touch with not only how we speak but how we move. It is so complex in session to think about what I’m saying, how I move my body, and how I try to help the person in front of me. A horse is nonverbal, so it’s distilled down to the movement interactions. I’m hoping we can start to see those movements as almost diagnostic, much as they are in the transference dialogue when we talk to people.
Angela: It’s a tremendous commitment to care for a horse, far more so than most people realize. And you cannot just go into an office in downtown Los Angeles and have equine-assisted therapy. You have to go to where the horses are, which often is in more rural environments. So I can imagine that accessibility and affordability might well limit people’s access to this treatment. How do you envision the future of equine therapy, given these potential limitations?
Brenda: What we’re learning in the research project is something that translates to work in the office, so that’s part of the answer. We want to contribute to therapy overall. But I think being around a horse is fantastic and I hope that all people who want that experience can have it. This style is more expensive than traditional therapy, because there are three beings on the team, the therapist, the equine specialist, and the horse. There’s a group called the Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship (PATH), International that is working state-by-state to get this therapy recognized as its own style of therapy that states could recognize, and then hopefully insurance will follow suit.
Angela: What are you most looking forward to at Journey Week this year?
Brenda: I’m looking forward to so many things! I love how Pacifica makes space to engage with ways of understanding, and I like to see how they make meaning out of special occasions like this. I’m looking forward to getting to know more people at Pacifica and to see some old friends. I want to hear the talks of my colleagues and find ways to collaborate. To me it’s fun to be in a group of individuals interested in depth psychology.
Angela: Do you have any forthcoming projects or publications we should keep an eye out for?
Brenda: We’re starting the new research project in the fall. It’s going to be about the topic that I’m bringing up at Journey Week, and it’s going to further investigate how the interactions of horses and humans can be studied from the perspective of body movements, the similarities in nervous systems, the ways people talk about their experiences. We’re going to triangulate multiple data sources to better understand what happens when you’re side by side with a horse.
I’ll also be doing a 4-Week Webinar Series with Pacifica Extension, entitled, “The Human – Animal Connection: A Depth Psychological Exploration of Animal-Assisted Activities and Considerations for Practice.” It starts in October, and I hope to see interested people join so we can continue the conversations about this important and exciting topic.
Angela: Thanks so much for the important work and research that you do. I’ve enjoyed speaking with you and I look forward to your talk during Journey Week.
Journey Week is an immersive week of learning and connecting at Pacifica Graduate Institute, September 27th – 29th, 2024. For more information and to register, visit us here.
Brenda Murrow, Ph.D. is a licensed psychologist who has experience in supporting patients in infancy to adults age 90+, with presenting concerns of trauma, abuse, attachment disruptions, and other emotional needs. She has worked in a variety of environments including as a Reiss-Davis Fellow in Los Angeles, and now serving rural communities in Kansas in private practice. She enjoys traditional in-office therapy settings as well as partnering with equines and canines in animal-assisted therapies.
Dr. Murrow seeks to contribute to the field of psychology both by teaching and through the research of assessment and treatment methods. She is a core faculty member and Research Coordinator in the Clinical Psychology department at Pacifica Graduate Institute and shares psychological concepts in an accessible way through her podcast, Connection Therapy.
Angela Borda is a writer for Pacifica Graduate Institute, as well as the editor of the Santa Barbara Literary Journal. Her work has been published in Food & Home, Peregrine, Hurricanes & Swan Songs, Delirium Corridor, Still Arts Quarterly, Danse Macabre, and is forthcoming in The Tertiary Lodger and Running Wild Anthology of Stories, Vol. 5.
